Podcasts

In this episode, Donna Dupont interviews Madeline Johnson, a Senior Analyst with the Canada Revenue Agency’s Fraud Red Team and a seasoned expert in the field of serious games. Madeline’s unconventional career path—from international diplomacy to designing games that solve complex problems for the government—gives her a unique perspective on how serious games can drive real-world change.

Madeline explains how serious games differ from traditional wargames, unpacking their power to simulate complex scenarios, reveal unexpected solutions, and support decision-making in high-stakes environments. We explore how serious games can help governments tackle issues like fraud, systemic risk, and other non-armed conflict challenges. Madeline also shares insights into the creativity and analytical thinking behind game design and analysis, demonstrating how these games are far more than play—they’re powerful tools for understanding and addressing society’s toughest problems.

Disclaimer: The views and opinions on strategic and serious gaming, as well as any comments on organizational actions expressed by Madeline Johnson are hers alone and reflect her experience. They do not represent the views, opinions, or official positions of Global Affairs Canada, the Canada Revenue Agency, or of the Government of Canada.

This podcast episode can be streamed below and is also available through Castos, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, Google Podcasts, TuneIn Radio, Deezer, iHeartRadio, Learn out Loud, Listen Notes, Player FM, Pocket Casts, Podcast Addict, Podchaser, RadioPublic and YouTube.

Become a supporter on ko-fi to get early access to the Tension podcast episodes!

_{Tension Podcast Ep. 11: Beyond Wargames – How Serious Games Drive Government Innovation with Madeline Johnson}

About This Episode’s Guest:

Madeline Johnson is a Senior Analyst with the Canada Revenue Agency’s Fraud Red Team.  She joined the CRA in May 2023 after serving as a Canadian diplomat for 13 years. Since 2018, she has been involved with serious games, finding deep satisfaction in their ability to spark creativity and provide valuable insights. Madeline views games as powerful processes for supporting the government to mitigate uncertainty in decision-making.

Links & Resources:

• Key serious game source in Canada – PAXsims: https://paxsims.wordpress.com/2023/04/18/workshop-on-serious-games-report/ 
• Stephen Downes-Martin’s work: https://sites.google.com/site/stephendownesmartin/
• Reading Now: The Right Kind of Wrong by Amy Edmondson: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Right-Kind-of-Wrong/Amy-C-Edmondson/9781982195069

Show Notes

Tension is in Feedspot’s 5 Best Canadian Design Podcasts! (https://podcasts.feedspot.com/canadian_design_podcasts/)

AOD is thrilled to announce that Game-Changer members can now apply for our new Certification Programme! Learn More: https://aodnetwork.ca/certification

Follow AOD
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/aodnetwork/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AODnetwork
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@aodnetwork
Discord: https://discord.com/invite/xKsTAN86Nx

Previous AOD Content
Tension Ep. 9: Breakthrough Shadows of Byzantium – A Turn-Based Mystery Investigation Wargame (https://youtu.be/DmUyS-DqsHo?si=HThg2-dS5-grLiIE)
Tension Ep. 8: Project Inner Alliance – Designing a Social Impact Game (https://youtu.be/66PMadx7y0M?si=AzRYlKSJraIAN1h6)
Tension Ep. 7: The Bold and Messy Roller-coaster Ride of Design Education for Military Officers (https://youtu.be/P2o2qQm1aqo?si=H5jjSTemIMmozNq1)

Credits
Host: Donna Dupont
Editor: Mikhial Gurarie
Graphic Designer: Habiba Elgendy
Producer: Thomas Changarathil